I am afraid I don't know enough to vote. I have no idea which organization want's to set this up and for what purpose. I understand that the Muslims in this country may feel very badly about what happened and want to......well no, still doesn't seem right. Seems a mockery. Is there no other place in all of New York to build a mosque or is it purposely being put there? The more I think about it I don't need facts. It just feels wrong no matter for what reason.
If it was some one different, maybe. If there wasn't such a background, maybe. It's like building a white supremest chuch on a hollucst site (Spelling???).
From Blair: If you look at history, when they have conquered an area they pick a high profile site (usually of a religious nature) and build over the top. I vote no.
It does seem like a mockery to me, almost like they're rubbing what happened to us in our faces. It may very well be that they have good intentions and that there is good people behind this but I just don't know.
I like to think of Muslims like Mormons. Sometimes we are judged by the few who make us look bad. I think, no I KNOW, that is the fact with muslims. 99.9% of them are good, faithful people. But they are being judged by the .1% who are radicals. In Virginia there are a lot of muslims, and I have had the honor of getting to know some of them. They are good people who think what the terrorists did was awful. They are not terrorists, nor do they support or associate with them. It's like saying the FLDS church is part of our church. People who don't know us think it is, while the people who know a mormon know they are not. My point: don't associate Muslims with the terrorists. They are not the same. I vote Support.
I agree with Hayley (surprise, surprise). I don't believe Muslims are bad people and I think one of the strengths of our country is the ability to gather all people from all walks of life and traditions and build a fabric that is unbendable.
If you change the scenario any number of ways, the opposition seems silly. Here are a couple:
Picture a situation where a white supremacist group bombed a black church claiming to act on behalf of the entire white race in opposing blacks. The church is never reconstructed but becomes a symbol of the deaths of the individuals and a site of pilgrimage for African Americans. Would you oppose a non-radical, non-racist predominantly white church from building two blocks away from the Church?
Picture another situation where a group claiming to be Mormons (maybe they actually are Mormons) becomes so obsessed with polygamy that they start a city on the outskirts of town, convincing a number underage girls to come with them to be their wives. The girls go but quickly realize that the group is a sham designed to exploit them. Several of them are killed due to the brutality of the group. Still, many of them live, have children, and only until years later are finally emancipated and freed to leave. The city is abandoned, but a memorial is placed there for the survivors to pay homage to those who perished there. Ten years later, after the city has expanded to reach the abandoned colony, the LDS church decides it wants to build a Temple two blocks away from the memorial. Is that a problem?
To me it is all perspective. Our country is based on freedom and all should be free build places of worship wherever they want.
I agree that we can't judge the majority on the stupid minority. That is why I said if it was someone ELSE then I would agree- some other Muslim leader. The fact is, this guy is a a little bit off his rocker and I don't think he is meaning it in a positive light, he certainly doesn't vocalize it.
I understand both points of view, and it's tricky to firmly say one thing or another, but I think I'm more inclined to lean toward support. Islam didn't cause the deaths of thousands of people on 9/11, al-Qaeda did. I think that it was definitely in poor taste to choose that location for a mosque, but they have a right to worship "how, where, and what they may."
I can totally understand both points of view as well and I have met a lot of of good Muslim people also. I just wish I knew the motives behind it. I don't know who is in charge of this but like I said before I hope that they have nothing but good intentions.
Josh: Let them build a mosque. But keep eyes and ears on everything and everyone associated with it. Why? Wolves in sheep's clothing may, unbeknownst to the rest of members of the mosque, try to use the location as a point of infiltration. I would say the same thing if it were Irish protestant terrorists involved in an attack and then a protestant church was set up nearby. We may let all worship as they please but keep our guard up against Gadianton robbers. Any hint of corruption or threat by anyone associated with that mosque should call into question again its presence.
All I have to say is two words: constitutional right. But of course I can't leave it at that. Let me shed some more light on the situation. This isn't really your normal church. It's a 13 story community center with the upper floor dedicated for prayer services. It will be modeled after the YMCA with a pool, gym, and other amenities. Secondly, it's not like it is at ground zero, it is two blocks away on property which the organization already owns. They are knocking down a building they currently worship in to build it. The fact is, it is already a Muslim worship sight, that won't change even if this community center now labeled a "mosque" is built.
Here's my opinion. Better late than never. I think it is the Muslims' right to build what they want where they want. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution guarantee freedom of religion to all, including us as Mormons, something that we have truly needed in many instances of the past. So, constitutionally I say they should be able to build. On the other hand, while I think they should be left to do what they want, deciding to build a mosque here is extremely bad taste. Their religion preaches peace and cooperations, as does ours, and it seems illogical to me that they would continue with such an endeavor that would enrage the American public like it is doing. But then again I could also lecture the American public on tolerance and forgiveness. The attack was almost a decade ago and the mending of the rift between the American public and the Muslim community have to start sometime. So why not in the place where the attack took place? The ultimate symbol of healing the wounds and mending the bonds of the community. So, in essence, I say let's move on people. Not to depreciate the lives of those lost in the attacks, but wouldn't their sacrifices be much more respected if we promoted peace? So, while I can understand the points of view of everyone, let's all make up and be friends. Of course we must be wary of any dangers and never let our guard down, but we can't let suspicion and anger get the best of us and get in the way of peace and cooperation. Live and let live!
I know it's dumb but it makes a big difference to me that it's not on ground zero. I didn't realize it was two blocks away on property they already owned. I don't question motives as much knowing that. They should totally be able to do with it what they want. Thanks for enlightening me guys.
Thanks for all your info. I never know what's going on past my front door. Sometimes I don't really care to either. I figure people are going to do what they will whether I know or care about it anyway. I am just an observer in awe at how many things there are to get in an uproar about. In the world but not of it. I guess if it really affects my family and ability to worship then I'll pay closer attention.
I think that they should fire their PR person though. I have to think that they are smart people and they way that they have been handling just sets it up to look bad.
The Mosque is being pushed by a radical Musilim that thinks and is telling the world that USA has killed more Muslim children than muslims have killed people. They (New York) have not let the Greek Orthodox REbuild their church that was there but are willing to do this? Brian (or whoever)is right about Muslims build a Mosque where they have conquored. Make no mistake, to the radical muslim eyes, it will be a monument to victory and the killing of thousands of men, women and children infidels. Mom
What happened to religious freedom, mom? The very reason we are so saddened we cannot build temples in certain countries we are now advocating against others? I believe withholding the building of the Mosque creates a reason for them to hate us and will create more radicals than allowing it to be built. Furthermore, Muslims are good people, we need not be blindly afraid of them.
Everyone NEEDS TO KNOW I KNOW Muslims are good, wonderful people. I've become very knowledgable by reading "Three Cups Of Tea" A fantastic true ongoing story about a man who lives in Billings, MT who started a big humanitarian project to bring schools to the Muslim villages in Afganistan to educate the girls as well as the boys. The Muslims are very for this, and want all their children to be educated, but it's Hamas who is radical and boming, killing and trying to stop this as well as eliminate all non-muslims. They count on the Muslim people there staying poor and accepting any opportunity for their boys to be educated, which Hamas offers. Hamas takes these impoverished youth and educates them in private, wall-off schools called Madras, the way they want which is to hate all non-muslims and keep the women in obscurity. They DO build mosques on conquered ground and it will be a sign for all Hamas of conquering an enemy. If there was a way of knowing for sure Hamas was not involved with the funding and that it would not create more feelings between peoples, I would be OK with it. I encourage "Three cups of Tea" for a fantastic read. It's on the best seller list. I've got it and will send it to you, just ask. Mom
I concede, good point and I don't feel much like debating it anymore other than to say it was very interesting talking to my mission room-mate whose dad is from Lebanon. There Hamas has a legitimate strong political party. I won't say whether or not I agree, but it was very interesting to hear the Lebanese point of view that while Hamas does a lot of heinous things, it also does a massive amount of good for certain communities--building hospitals, administering aid to the impoverished, etc. etc. In America all we here is that it's terrible and out to get us, but for the people it serves, it does, indeed, help to a lot of people. That said, I may still disagree with Hamas, but just an interesting tidbit to know the world isn't always as black and white as we like to think it is sometimes.
Please answer the poll on the blog and give any feedback you wish in comments. I am interested to see what you think!
ReplyDeleteI am afraid I don't know enough to vote. I have no idea which organization want's to set this up and for what purpose. I understand that the Muslims in this country may feel very badly about what happened and want to......well no, still doesn't seem right. Seems a mockery. Is there no other place in all of New York to build a mosque or is it purposely being put there? The more I think about it I don't need facts. It just feels wrong no matter for what reason.
ReplyDeleteIf it was some one different, maybe. If there wasn't such a background, maybe. It's like building a white supremest chuch on a hollucst site (Spelling???).
ReplyDeleteFrom Blair: If you look at history, when they have conquered an area they pick a high profile site (usually of a religious nature) and build over the top. I vote no.
ReplyDeleteIt does seem like a mockery to me, almost like they're rubbing what happened to us in our faces. It may very well be that they have good intentions and that there is good people behind this but I just don't know.
ReplyDeleteI like to think of Muslims like Mormons. Sometimes we are judged by the few who make us look bad. I think, no I KNOW, that is the fact with muslims. 99.9% of them are good, faithful people. But they are being judged by the .1% who are radicals. In Virginia there are a lot of muslims, and I have had the honor of getting to know some of them. They are good people who think what the terrorists did was awful. They are not terrorists, nor do they support or associate with them. It's like saying the FLDS church is part of our church. People who don't know us think it is, while the people who know a mormon know they are not. My point: don't associate Muslims with the terrorists. They are not the same. I vote Support.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hayley (surprise, surprise). I don't believe Muslims are bad people and I think one of the strengths of our country is the ability to gather all people from all walks of life and traditions and build a fabric that is unbendable.
ReplyDeleteIf you change the scenario any number of ways, the opposition seems silly. Here are a couple:
Picture a situation where a white supremacist group bombed a black church claiming to act on behalf of the entire white race in opposing blacks. The church is never reconstructed but becomes a symbol of the deaths of the individuals and a site of pilgrimage for African Americans. Would you oppose a non-radical, non-racist predominantly white church from building two blocks away from the Church?
Picture another situation where a group claiming to be Mormons (maybe they actually are Mormons) becomes so obsessed with polygamy that they start a city on the outskirts of town, convincing a number underage girls to come with them to be their wives. The girls go but quickly realize that the group is a sham designed to exploit them. Several of them are killed due to the brutality of the group. Still, many of them live, have children, and only until years later are finally emancipated and freed to leave. The city is abandoned, but a memorial is placed there for the survivors to pay homage to those who perished there. Ten years later, after the city has expanded to reach the abandoned colony, the LDS church decides it wants to build a Temple two blocks away from the memorial. Is that a problem?
To me it is all perspective. Our country is based on freedom and all should be free build places of worship wherever they want.
I agree that we can't judge the majority on the stupid minority. That is why I said if it was someone ELSE then I would agree- some other Muslim leader. The fact is, this guy is a a little bit off his rocker and I don't think he is meaning it in a positive light, he certainly doesn't vocalize it.
ReplyDeleteI understand both points of view, and it's tricky to firmly say one thing or another, but I think I'm more inclined to lean toward support. Islam didn't cause the deaths of thousands of people on 9/11, al-Qaeda did. I think that it was definitely in poor taste to choose that location for a mosque, but they have a right to worship "how, where, and what they may."
ReplyDeleteI can totally understand both points of view as well and I have met a lot of of good Muslim people also. I just wish I knew the motives behind it. I don't know who is in charge of this but like I said before I hope that they have nothing but good intentions.
ReplyDeleteJosh: Let them build a mosque. But keep eyes and ears on everything and everyone associated with it. Why? Wolves in sheep's clothing may, unbeknownst to the rest of members of the mosque, try to use the location as a point of infiltration. I would say the same thing if it were Irish protestant terrorists involved in an attack and then a protestant church was set up nearby. We may let all worship as they please but keep our guard up against Gadianton robbers. Any hint of corruption or threat by anyone associated with that mosque should call into question again its presence.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAll I have to say is two words: constitutional right. But of course I can't leave it at that. Let me shed some more light on the situation. This isn't really your normal church. It's a 13 story community center with the upper floor dedicated for prayer services. It will be modeled after the YMCA with a pool, gym, and other amenities. Secondly, it's not like it is at ground zero, it is two blocks away on property which the organization already owns. They are knocking down a building they currently worship in to build it. The fact is, it is already a Muslim worship sight, that won't change even if this community center now labeled a "mosque" is built.
ReplyDeleteHere's my opinion. Better late than never. I think it is the Muslims' right to build what they want where they want. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution guarantee freedom of religion to all, including us as Mormons, something that we have truly needed in many instances of the past. So, constitutionally I say they should be able to build. On the other hand, while I think they should be left to do what they want, deciding to build a mosque here is extremely bad taste. Their religion preaches peace and cooperations, as does ours, and it seems illogical to me that they would continue with such an endeavor that would enrage the American public like it is doing. But then again I could also lecture the American public on tolerance and forgiveness. The attack was almost a decade ago and the mending of the rift between the American public and the Muslim community have to start sometime. So why not in the place where the attack took place? The ultimate symbol of healing the wounds and mending the bonds of the community. So, in essence, I say let's move on people. Not to depreciate the lives of those lost in the attacks, but wouldn't their sacrifices be much more respected if we promoted peace? So, while I can understand the points of view of everyone, let's all make up and be friends. Of course we must be wary of any dangers and never let our guard down, but we can't let suspicion and anger get the best of us and get in the way of peace and cooperation. Live and let live!
ReplyDeleteI know it's dumb but it makes a big difference to me that it's not on ground zero. I didn't realize it was two blocks away on property they already owned. I don't question motives as much knowing that. They should totally be able to do with it what they want. Thanks for enlightening me guys.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your info. I never know what's going on past my front door. Sometimes I don't really care to either. I figure people are going to do what they will whether I know or care about it anyway. I am just an observer in awe at how many things there are to get in an uproar about. In the world but not of it. I guess if it really affects my family and ability to worship then I'll pay closer attention.
ReplyDeleteoops. I voted twice, the numbers are now skewed. Sorry, Greg. Just take one off "support"
ReplyDeleteI think that they should fire their PR person though. I have to think that they are smart people and they way that they have been handling just sets it up to look bad.
ReplyDeleteThe Mosque is being pushed by a radical Musilim that thinks and is telling the world that USA has killed more Muslim children than muslims have killed people. They (New York) have not let the Greek Orthodox REbuild their church that was there but are willing to do this? Brian (or whoever)is right about Muslims build a Mosque where they have conquored. Make no mistake, to the radical muslim eyes, it will be a monument to victory and the killing of thousands of men, women and children infidels. Mom
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to religious freedom, mom? The very reason we are so saddened we cannot build temples in certain countries we are now advocating against others? I believe withholding the building of the Mosque creates a reason for them to hate us and will create more radicals than allowing it to be built. Furthermore, Muslims are good people, we need not be blindly afraid of them.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteEveryone NEEDS TO KNOW I KNOW Muslims are good, wonderful people. I've become very knowledgable by reading "Three Cups Of Tea" A fantastic true ongoing story about a man who lives in Billings, MT who started a big humanitarian project to bring schools to the Muslim villages in Afganistan to educate the girls as well as the boys. The Muslims are very for this, and want all their children to be educated, but it's Hamas who is radical and boming, killing and trying to stop this as well as eliminate all non-muslims. They count on the Muslim people there staying poor and accepting any opportunity for their boys to be educated, which Hamas offers. Hamas takes these impoverished youth and educates them in private, wall-off schools called Madras, the way they want which is to hate all non-muslims and keep the women in obscurity. They DO build mosques on conquered ground and it will be a sign for all Hamas of conquering an enemy. If there was a way of knowing for sure Hamas was not involved with the funding and that it would not create more feelings between peoples, I would be OK with it. I encourage "Three cups of Tea" for a fantastic read. It's on the best seller list. I've got it and will send it to you, just ask. Mom
ReplyDeleteI concede, good point and I don't feel much like debating it anymore other than to say it was very interesting talking to my mission room-mate whose dad is from Lebanon. There Hamas has a legitimate strong political party. I won't say whether or not I agree, but it was very interesting to hear the Lebanese point of view that while Hamas does a lot of heinous things, it also does a massive amount of good for certain communities--building hospitals, administering aid to the impoverished, etc. etc. In America all we here is that it's terrible and out to get us, but for the people it serves, it does, indeed, help to a lot of people. That said, I may still disagree with Hamas, but just an interesting tidbit to know the world isn't always as black and white as we like to think it is sometimes.
ReplyDelete